I completely agree that battleships are underpowered.

I don't think they need any more tank or capacitor buffs but I think the DPS needs a big buff... Someone asked "do we need 2000 dps battleships" but you have to remember that it is harder for large weapons to apply their damage to smaller targets.

PS. t3 cruisers are fine. They are supposed to be the pinnacle of ship technology ffs! Of course they should be able to beat a T1 BC.

A problem with flat HP buffs across the board for all Battleships is that it further extends the idea that 1600mm plates and Large Shield Extenders are not "BS sized" modules.

If the Megathron's armor is increased by 50% or 100%, then a 1600mm is that much less of an actual bonus, and the meta will probably shift to resist mods and (!) maybe even Layered Plating will become useful (layered plate mods give a flat % bonus to armor HP instead of resists, and you never see them used currently).

This would mean 1600mm plates, which were originally intended to be fit by Battleships and probably NOT cruisers... would exclusively be fit on cruisers. And then we'll have people calling for "BS sized" mods to be introduced.

I say BS don't need an HP buff, just a DPS and maybe range/tracking buffs.

i.e. Megathron = cant expect 2000 dps
i.e. Vindicator = " 3000 dps

Why not?

the gap between BS and capitals is WAY bigger then the gap between cruisers and BS and on this note only your solution is NOT a solution. T3 cruisers need a nerf it is as simple as that.

so let me get this straight you know that T3s are OP and you want to fix it by nerfing capitals (which is what you are doing if you boost BS and keep T3 cruisers OP) and make BS also OP and you dare to call this a start of a solution??????

are you freaking kidding me????? the only thing that is needed is a nerf of the T3 cruisers and believe me i can fly all of them near perfect, but it has to be done period.

in case you don't believe me http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ellendras_Silver

suggestion is make all battleships hit 17.8% harder, 22% more shield, structure, armor hp, and finally 11% larger cap with 8% faster cap recharge.

i don't have a issue with a small boost to BS`s in general but what you propose is a HUGE buff that is not out of proportion it is off the scale. starting about the SP loss of a T3 cruiser that should be removed with the nerf.

but lets face it the whole problem is that T3 cruisers are OP and that can not be fixed by tearing the WHOLE balancing out of scale by boosting BS`s with the numbers you are proposing. and calling it a small power shift is the cherry on the cake my god what have you been smoking.

when will you get it??? the problem is not that the BS cant match the tank of a T3 cruiser, but that a T3 cruiser can exceed a BS tank. the problem has always been with the T3 cruiser so they need a nerf again it is that simple

and again you can not compare the tank of capitals with that of a BS as there is a HUGE gap between them. It is as if you compare the tank of a frigate to a battle cruiser

i thought that was logical and it only support my point T3 cruisers are OP and need a nerf. but the TS wants to give BS a HUGE buff because Tr cruisers are OP and that makes as much sense as a cat with swimming fins

Hmm.. I don't know if that is the answer. Being a slow ship doesn't have to be a bad thing. When I am on SiSi I get to fly a lot of battleships that I usually wouldn't but being slow didn't really have a bitter taste.

But on one thing I hope everyone will agree with you, I do, the Abaddon - the worst laserboat in New Eden, even worse than the Punisher.
Was trying to make this ship work last night but for the life of me there was no way to make it viable. The damage bonus is misplaced and should be replaced with something useful even if it's just the capacitor use bonus some Amarr ships share.

Just for my curiousity, what do you think is wrong with the Navy Apocalypse? I always liked the Apocalypse since I can fly her and the Navy Apocalypse is just a little easier to fit, so I am curious.

Why do you think that having more buffer would be a good thing on the four ships?

I really think that current trend to hull-buffer everything is terrible to say the least. It used to be an artform to active tank. Now it is racing challenge to put as much bulkhead on every boat as you can.

Btw. we need a pirate faction implant set that increases hull hp by 7 million % and 3 trillion as set bonus /sarcasm.

normal tanked proteus have same speed at mwd, as bs for example mach. Proteus cant dictate anything, he doesnt have utiliti high slots. enough med slots(3 may be 4 at best)

@O2 jayjay
i don't hate T3 cruisers or else i would not have trained them, and i already stated that i am not against a small buff for BS in general, what the TS suggests in his OP is like stated before not out of proportion, but it is off the scale. The reason i want T3 cruisers to be nerfed is because they are so OP it is not funny, and nerfing them will solve a lot ofc it isnt easy as a lot of people depend on its income (WH industry) and they need to be able to do WH sites properly

@W0lf Crendraven
i really cant take you seriously i am sorry but T3 cruisers crush every T2 cruiser and even battle-cruiser in the game only exception is the commandship (only since they changed it) and logi

@Oskolda Eriker
funny but why do you say flights?????? you mean i never lost a T3 cruiser well not on this toon no but on 2 other toons i did, i can assure you i used them on multiple characters

My suggestion is make all battleships hit 17.8% harder, 22% more shield, structure, armor hp, and finally 11% larger cap with 8% faster cap recharge.

that is far and i mean far too much can we agree on this aswell?

Battleships need a buff, but not a damage, more ehp, or cap. Those are all useless to a bs nowadays, what a bs needs is scan ress, a tiny bit of lock range so it can lock past 100km and warp speed.


And ideally someway to avoid camps.

While battleships certainly need a role bonus, just leaving T3s as is doesn't fix any problems. T3Cs need a nerf. Buffing battleships to 2k DPS is not going to fix T3Cs. Don't revolve your battleship buff around the T3C, and don't nerf the T3C around battleships.

4-5k dps vindicators

All you need to do is ask and since you did, Mafia Redux did exactly that with 8 Taloses a while back and even had that on a podcast of theirs where they talked about taking down said carrier.

A few years ago I made the same experiment on SiSi asking for a few battleship pilots to help bring down my Chimera. 11 came, warped and killed it.

So in response, they already can and battleships do not need more firepower.


It is always very astounding that you always choose to not read what I say about ships or weapons and the very clear differences in damage per second - every time.

Let me repeat myself. Battleship guns and cruiser gun may do the very same paper damage per second but it is a very huge difference in how.
Being shot every 3 seconds with 3000hp damage is very different than begin hit by 6000hp damage every 6 seconds and the difference is not the timer tick of the hamsters.

Let's make an example.

You shoot a tach-mare with a 1000dps vigilant. For arguments sake let's say you shoot 3000hp thermal and kinetic in a 50:50 slit using Void M one time.
The resulting damage in a properly fit tach-mare will be somewhere between 700 - 900hp damage.

The tach-mare has you scramed and counter webbed and shoots you with Gleam L and you hypothetical plate-rep vigilant gets hit with 4000hp damage - low EM and some thermal resist make sure of that and you are at 80% armor because the shields didn't "buffer" any damge.

Now the tach-mare turns on the shield booster and swipes away your tiny boat damage and shoots again - you are in structure and the tach-mare pilot is asking herself if your vigilant really was a thread or not.

That 1000dps vigilant goes boom and the 920dps tach-mare wins.

Do you understand now that 1000dps are not equal to 1000dps??

No, they should not.